SB61G2 does not power on with 9700 Pro AiW installed

[XoquE]

hey.. first time listener, first time caller... err, or something.

Anyways, just got my new system and I have been having problems with my ATI Radeon 9700 Pro All in Wonder card. When the card is installed, the system won't even power on. As in, when I hit the power button, the fans, drives, etc don't receive power and start up. Both LEDs flash on the front of the case, but thats it. Lets first start with everything I got in the SB61G2:
P4 2.6C
1024 MB (2x512MB) Geil PC3500 DDR RAM
180 Gig IBM/HDS HD 180GXP Deskstar
Plextor DVD/CDRW
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro All in Wonder
Now as for what I've done to troubleshoot so far. First thoughts were that it could be a Radeon problem, so I took out the 9700 Pro, and the system would power on just using the onboard GFX. In an old system, I tested the 9700 Pro, and it came up fine in it. So I thought, well maybe its the AGP slot, so I put in the GF2 from my old computer, yet it powered up fine in my SB61G2. I did a lot of messing around with settings etc. I even thought it might be a power issue so I connected the extra power connector on the 9700 pro to my old computers power supply with the card plugged in to the XPC, yet that still would not power on. Finally last night, I was frustrated enough to just start loading the system w/o the ATI, so I started it up with just the onboard GFX and started installing Win XP on the HD. I hit that IRQL_not_less_or_equal problem (as discussed in another post on this board - http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000537) along with some other BSOD error message. After that I used memutil to test my memory with a bootable CD and got all sorts of errors. Unfortunately, I assumed in my previous troubleshooting that the "Auto" setting for the memory speed would be fine, but after reading that other post, one of the things I'll try is messing with the speeds to see if that helps. But here's another crazy thing. Last night I took out *everything* from the case, memory, drives, cards. First I tried powering it on like that, and it would power on (although I obviously had no video since the onboard GFX requires the memory to be installed). So next I put in the 9700 Pro and thats it, and again it won't even power on. I'm pretty stumped and was resigned to blaming it on a faulty motherboard until I saw that memory speed issue on that other post. That still doesn't seem to explain why it would not power on with the memory not even in the system though.. unless it runs the memory bus fast even without memory installed and that is somehow conflicting with having the Radeon installed. I'll test changing the memory settings when I get home tonight (I'm at work now), but anyone else have any insight or ideas? Thanks a lot! (Wow, I typed alot)

[XoquE]

Found a thread at SFFTech covering this problem:
http://forums.sudhian.com/messagevie...E=&STARTPAGE=1

Looks like its a common problem that has no official solution as of yet but has been around for awhile.

[bluetooth]

Could be due to inadequate power.

[RayvenX]

Originally posted by Bluetooth:
Could be due to inadequate power.

Could be, but some people have R9700AIWs working, and one guy in the sfftech stread reports that even using an external PSU , it failed to boot. I notice one thing that wasn't really considered was the revision of the board in the sn41g2's in question (though they did point out that tere were different revisions of the ATI boards too), could be an incompatibility between either the rev 1.4 boards and the AIW or the 2.0 boards and the AIW. I don't know anyone with a 9700 pro AIW, otherwise I'd test it myself...

Anways, a guy reported the same problem with a 9500 pro. I can confirm I have never had an issue with my 9500 pro and fn41 rev2.0

After reading through many forums on this issue, I have seen that it happens on many different shuttle boards, and with many different ATI card, all of which have the floppy connector onboard to supply extra power. On the Sudhian forums some have found that the floppy connector can sometimes be loose, and that seems to cause some problems. I have an SB61G2, and used a 9500 Pro with it and never had a problem, of course though, all of my settings are set very conservatively in the BIOS. Here is my current config:

SB61G2
P4 3.0C
2x512 Kingston PC3200 ValueRAM
ATI 9600 (non pro, I like the passive cooling!)
Pioneer DVR-A05U
Seagate 120 SATA
NO FLOPPY! (I hate floppies!) LOL!

Many have tried to get this setup working by plugging in 300+ watt power supplies, to no avail, and I was running the 9500 Pro, along with a 3.0C, with no problems on a 200 watt power supply. I will be interested to see how this all pans out.

[XoquE]

Yeah... from the information of all the people having the problem, it does not seem to be a power problem. That is, having enough power. There have been tests, referenced in that other article, of people trying 300W, 430W, 550W and all hitting the same problem. I tried it myself with a 300W that was on a separate box, and it still failed. What it looks to be is some of the newer power supplies have a protection circuit if there is too much current drain when it is powered on and the new revision of the 9700 Pro AIW (and various other ATI cards) seemingly causes this condition.

There is a ghetto hack to get around the problem at the moment, which really sucks but is a lot better than nothing. If you power on the machine with the power cord disconnected from the ATI card, and connect it about 1.5 seconds after powering it on, it will miss the over-current protection (this is speculation), and it will actually work! However, its a pain in the rear, and you have to have good timing. Connect it too soon, and it hits the protection and power is cut. Connect it too late, and you will get the message from the video card "You need to connect the power cable blah blah blah." However, with good timing you can get it to work, I've done it myself.

I emailed ATI and Shuttle last night to see if they're doing anything to fix this problem. People who have done this previously have not had that much success in getting a serious response, but we'll see. One idea I mentioned on the other board was contacting tech magazines and e-zines, so they could post articles to alert a lot more people. Maybe with there is more exposure, ATI and Shuttle will finally realize its in their best interest to fix this as soon as possible.

[XoquE]

Well, Shuttle responded pretty quickly:

Thank You for contacting Shuttle Computer Support.

Shuttle Computer is in the process working with ATI for possible solution. Shuttle will keep your most update as soon as any development on this issue with ATI 9700 AIW graphic cards.

Shuttle Computer Support

Its something, but its still pretty vague. I will reply and ask for a timeframe on the solution.